Author: Eric Cortellessa; Source: TIME; Compiler: Liam Carbon Chain ValueEditor's Note: This article is about 35,000 words and takes about 60 minutes to read. For reference/learning only.This is the moment he has been dreaming of for four years. At 2:24 in the morning of November 6, Donald Trump, surrounded by advisers, party leaders, family and friends, swaggered onto the stage of a banquet hall in Florida. The Associated Press had not yet announced the election results, but it was clear at the time that voters had pushed him back to the center of power. Trump stared at a group of supporters wearing red MAGA hats, immersed in the almost certain victory. "We have achieved the most incredible political achievement," Trump said. "The United States has given us a mandate as strong as ever."How Trump, 78, won reelection will become history, and the choice of the United States can already be traced back to a few key decisions. For Trump's top aides, the theme of the campaign can be summed up in a simple slogan: "Maximize the role of men and control the role of women." That meant emphasizing the economy and immigration, which Trump did relentlessly. It meant distracting from the chaos of his first term, the abortion ban he introduced and the attack on American democracy four years ago. It meant a campaign that tapped into the resentment of disappointed voters and played on the cultural divisions and tribal politics that Trump has long exploited.Most importantly, the result can be attributed to an extraordinary figure whose political trajectory back to the White House is unprecedented in the United States' 250 years. Trump left office in 2021 as a pariah after inciting a mob of his supporters to ransack the U.S. Capitol in an attempt to overturn his election defeat. Three years later, he has engineered an unprecedented political comeback. Trump defied almost everyone's expectations by effortlessly defeating his Republican opponents, forcing President Joe Biden to drop out of the race and defeating Vice President Kamala Harris in a landslide victory. In the process, Trump shed 34 felony convictions and a slew of other criminal indictments. His success was stunning. Trump took North Carolina, pulled Georgia back into his fold and broke the blue wall. His campaign exceeded expectations by getting men to vote and women to vote. Exit polls showed Trump winning large numbers of Latino male voters in key battleground states, with support among that group rising from 27% to 42% in Pennsylvania. Nationally, Trump's support among Latino men jumped from 36% to 54%. Trump also increased the share of voters without a college degree, won over black voters in Pennsylvania and Wisconsin and solidified support among white women nationwide, shocking Democrats who had expected an uprising after the Dobbs incident. Among first-time voters, Trump’s approval rating is up to 54%, up from 32% four years ago. He’s had some big breakthroughs. When Trump launched his campaign after a third straight national rebuke, Republican leaders tried to ignore him. His primary opponents were too timid to confront him. A combination of friendly judges and legal delays delayed his toughest criminal trials until after the election. Until July, Trump’s general election opponent was an unpopular incumbent who many thought was too old to continue in the office. Biden’s poor performance in the first and only debate confirmed those suspicions. The Democrats’ haste to replace the first-term president with Harris deprived them of a more experienced candidate with potentially broader support. Voters have taken Trump’s advanced age and increasingly incoherent campaign rhetoric in their stride. Much of the country sees Trump’s legal woes as part of a larger corrupt conspiracy to strip him and them of power. Trump has also benefited from the global upheaval that has driven incumbent leaders from power around the world in the wake of the coronavirus pandemic.The consequences could be historic. Trump has dominated American politics for nine years, and the country has chosen to reinstall him after a turbulent four-year presidency that broke out into insurrection. Trump campaigned on an authoritarian agenda that upends America’s democratic norms, and he’s already preparing to deliver on it: mass detention and deportation of immigrants; revenge against political enemies through the justice system; deployment of the military against his own civilians. The question of how far he chooses to push the power the public has given him will determine the fate of the country.For the Make America Great Again faithful, Trump’s victory is a galvanizing vision. To the less-enthusiastic supporters who helped him rise to the top, his rhetoric was mostly bluster, aimed at reforming a government out of touch with the needs of the American economy and society. To the rest of the country and much of the world, a second Trump term looked like a blow to democracy, both here and elsewhere. That divisiveness will dominate American opinion for the next four years. The country is more polarized than at any time since the Civil War. But soon, at least one thing will connect us all: On January 20, we will all be living in Trump's America. This article, based on more than 20 interviews over the past eight months, tells how Trump did it, offering a glimpse of what Trump might look like. As always, Trump strategizes by instinct. In April 2023, days after making history by becoming the first former president to be charged with a crime, he huddled with advisers at Mar-a-Lago in Florida. The topic of conversation: How can he control the political narrative? Trump had just gotten off the phone with his friend, Dana White, the CEO of the Ultimate Fighting Championship. There was a game in Miami that Saturday. “I think those guys are going to like me,” Trump said.When Trump entered the arena on April 10, he was greeted with thunderous applause. There he met the Nelk Boys, a group of influential figures who host right-wing podcasts. Trump had appeared on their show a year earlier, but it was removed by YouTube for spreading election lies. The chance encounter led to a second appearance. His closest confidants didn’t realize it at the time, but the interview on the male-centric podcast would become a turning point in his extraordinary political resurgence.It’s easy to forget how shaky Trump’s prospects were at the start of his campaign. He announced his third run for president in November 2022, days after the Republicans suffered a crushing defeat in the midterms—the third consecutive national election in which the former president was seen as a drag on the party. Trump’s handpicked candidates bought into his lies that the 2020 election was stolen and lost key races across the country. Elected Republicans saw it as a sign that America was drifting away from Trump, and almost all of them shunned his grievance-filled opening speech at Mar-a-Lago. They just hoped he’d go away.But the early start of the campaign proved to be a smart move, allowing Trump to position the looming criminal prosecution as politically motivated. With each indictment, his approval ratings among Republican voters grew and he received millions of dollars in cash. His main rivals spent more time attacking each other than defeating those standing in their way. Florida Governor Ron DeSantis, arguably Trump’s most formidable opponent, dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses. By March, Trump had secured enough delegates to become the candidate for the Republican nomination. It was the most competitive presidential primary in modern U.S. history. Trump's overwhelming victory in the primaries was the result of a carefully crafted strategy by his two campaign managers, Suzy Wells and Chris LaCivita. Wells, a veteran Florida strategist, worked for DeSantis during his 2018 campaign for governor, but the two fell out after he was sworn in. After the 2020 presidential election, Wells took over Trump's primary political action committee, Save America. According to sources close to him, Trump, who is already plotting his way back to Washington despite being in exile, suspects that the biggest obstacle in the 2024 primary may be DeSantis. Who better to help him than Wells? Wells recruited LaCivita, an experienced Republican operative. Together, they drafted a campaign strategy. They concluded that Make America Great Again supporters were strong enough to ensure Trump a win in the Republican primary, giving them time to pilot a plan to defeat Biden in November. Trump’s team is focused on building an operation to identify and flush out Trump supporters who aren’t reliable voters. Wells and LaCivita, political director James Blair, and Trump’s longtime pollster Tony Fabrizzo believe gender will be key. In 2020, Biden maintained the 13-point lead Hillary Clinton had over Trump among female voters in 2016, while closing the gap among male voters by 5 points. “Men lost us the last election,” said a senior source in the Trump campaign. “Our goal is not to let that happen again.”The survey found that men, especially young men, were the most turned off by Biden, especially on the economy. In head-to-head matchups, Trump’s lead is most pronounced among unreliable male voters under 40. Advisers are focused on activating this group, who by and large view Biden as an old man who shouldn’t be president. These young people don’t get their news from mainstream media and don’t care much about reproductive rights or democratic rollbacks. When they do interact with politics, it’s mostly through edgy bro podcasts and social media. They admire Trump’s recklessness and habit of breaking convention. Focusing so much energy on winning over voters who don’t care much about politics is a risk. But La Civetta often repeats a quote from Winston Churchill that became his campaign slogan: “Be safe everywhere and do nothing everywhere.”As Trump courts male votes, he must also avoid losing among female voters by a wider margin than he did in 2016 and 2020 — no easy feat, given that the Supreme Court justices he appointed helped overturn Roe v. Wade, paving the way for nationwide abortion bans. Whenever he talked about abortion, Trump insisted that the issue was now a matter for the states to decide, and tried to focus as much as possible on the economy, immigration, and crime — issues that the campaign believed stoked anxiety among wealthy suburban women who would otherwise support him.When Trump spoke to Time magazine in April 2024, Biden’s poll numbers were slipping, and the Trump camp believed they were on the path to a decisive victory. In two interviews, Trump laid out an agenda for a second term that would reshape America and its role in the world. Meanwhile, a group of Trump-aligned groups, such as the Heritage Foundation’s 2025 Project and the Center for American Renewal, were laying the groundwork to implement Trump’s strongman vision. Many of their ideas — from imposing strict abortion restrictions to rolling back environmental protections to bringing the entire federal bureaucracy under presidential control — were unpopular with a broad swath of the electorate. But Trump seemed to believe victory in the fall was inevitable. The campaign’s confidence grew only in the three intense weeks that followed Biden’s disastrous June 27 debate performance. On July 13, Trump survived an assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania, with a gunman’s bullet through his ear and Trump standing up, pumping his fists and bleeding from his face, the scene of defiance electrified supporters. Days later, Trump announced 39-year-old Ohio Sen. J.D. Vance as his running mate at the Republican convention, seemingly signaling his confidence that the MAGA movement would endure long into the future even if its leaders retired from politics.The high didn’t last long. Three days after the convention, Biden announced he would not seek reelection and endorsed Harris. Within days, the vice president had solidified Democratic support. Soon she was outraising Trump by hundreds of millions of dollars and hosting rallies that drew attendance and enthusiasm not seen in the Republican Party since the Obama era. A Trump victory no longer seemed a foregone conclusion. In a series of meetings in Palm Beach and at Trump’s New Jersey golf club, Wells, La Civita and their staff held multiple meetings to counter the threat posed by their new rival. A younger candidate makes it harder for them to appeal to voters disillusioned with Biden. It will be even harder to limit losses among female voters when running against a woman. Democratic efforts to tie Trump to an extreme agenda like the 2025 plan are beginning to bear fruit. Early internal polling, according to Trump sources, points to the challenge. Fabrizio’s survey showed a widespread desire for change and that their biggest risk was to present Harris as the change agent candidate. The Trump team began running ads and putting their surrogates on cable TV to blame Harris for Biden’s presidency, speculating that she would inherit many of her boss’ weaknesses. They focused on her role in the administration’s immigration affairs, where she was assigned to address the root causes of Central American migration, blaming her for a surge in border crossings. At the same time, Trump began to distance himself from the “2025 plan” while working to portray Harris as more left-leaning than she actually was.Privately, the campaign argued that Trump’s message on abortion — leaving it up to the states — was insufficient. Surveys show that abortion rights are the third or fourth most important issue for voters. After months of wavering on federal restrictions, Trump’s top lieutenants told him it was time to tackle the issue head-on. On Oct. 1, Trump posted on Truth Social that he would not support a national ban. There were challenges from within, too. Trump was growing increasingly restless. He brought in allies from previous campaigns, including Corey Lewandowski, one of his 2016 campaign managers. Lewandowski, one of Trump’s strongest advocates for “let Trump be himself,” according to multiple campaign officials, thought Wells and LaCivita had screwed up. In August, Lewandowski had a meeting with Trump where he suggested the Republican candidate fire the entire campaign leadership, according to two sources familiar with the meeting. Trump made no promises, just nodded and listened. Wells and LaCivita soon held a meeting with Trump, saying Lewandowski was a distraction and had derailed the campaign. Wells told him what they had been doing was working, and now was not the time to get off track. Trump agreed. On the next flight, he held a meeting with everyone, including Lewandowski, who had been sidelined as an adviser and largely confined to cable news in the final weeks of the campaign. Harris’s momentum seemed to continue into September. She won the only debate between the two candidates, baiting Trump into making a mistake. “We were very concerned internally that she was a more formidable opponent than we realized and that the dynamic had changed,” said a senior Trump official. But a week later, when polls showed that the debate had barely moved the race and the candidates were tied in the polls, the campaign breathed a sigh of relief. Trump returned to his mantra: accelerating efforts to win over young male voters. In late July, Wells tasked Alex Brusowitz, a 27-year-old Republican consultant, to provide Trump with a list of celebrities to interview for an online podcast, several people familiar with the matter told TIME. The next morning, Brusowitz and another senior Trump adviser, Daniel Alvarez, approached Trump on the golf course. “I have a list of podcasts I’d like to recommend to you,” Bruzewitz said. Trump interrupted him. “Have you talked to Barron about this?” he asked, referring to his 18-year-old son. “No, sir,” Bruzewitz replied. “Call Barron and see what he thinks, and let me know,” Trump said, and hung up. Bruzewitz reached out to Barron later that day and learned that he was particularly fond of Adyn Ross, a provocateur known for partnering with celebrities to live-stream video games like NBA2K and Grand Theft Auto. They agreed that Trump should start there. The podcast strategy was underway. In August, Trump appeared on Ross’s podcast, which went viral, garnering millions of views on the livestream. In the weeks that followed, Trump gave a series of fawning interviews with fellow buddy podcast hosts: Logan Paul, Theo Von, Joe Rogan. The campaign went out of its way to avoid most traditional media outlets. Trump took an unconventional approach to outsiders. Kennedy claimed he had defused a potential third-party threat by offering Robert F. Kennedy Jr. control of health care policy in exchange for dropping out of the race and endorsing him. The campaign outsourced its most labor-intensive field operations in key swing states to groups like Turning Point USA and America First Works. In the final weeks of the campaign, billionaire Elon Musk poured more than $100 million into his own political action committee to help Trump work in swing states. Musk, who pledged to lead a new “Government Effectiveness Commission” that would oversee the myriad federal agencies that regulate his company, hired staff and incentivized them to reach out to voters by paying them. He personally camped out in Pennsylvania, which both parties consider a key battleground state, and handed out $1 million checks to registered voters who signed petitions. Musk also turned his social media platform, X, into a crucible of conspiracy theories and described the stakes of the campaign to his more than 200 million followers. In the final weeks of the election, he publicized far-right conspiracy theories that Democrats were “importing” undocumented immigrants to swing states to irreversibly tilt the electoral map in their favor. “If Trump doesn’t win,” Musk said, “this is the last election.” As always, Trump’s self-destructive impulses posed challenges. A little more than a week before Election Day, he fulfilled a lifelong dream and held a rally at New York’s Madison Square Garden. Trump’s warm-up speakers delivered hateful, xenophobic and racist remarks at the event. The Trump campaign brought in a raunchy cast of boxers, including insult comedian Tony Hinchcliffe, who called Puerto Rico a "floating island of garbage." The campaign did not vet his remarks or upload them to a teleprompter before his routine speeches, according to two people familiar with the matter.Trump's former chief of staff, John Kelly, recently went on record saying Trump had praised Hitler's generals. Trump's former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, retired Gen. Mark Milley, called him a "complete fascist." Harris' campaign's internal polling showed the rally's disgusting atmosphere tilted late-decision voters toward her. Trump seemed likely to collapse at the last minute.Just after 9 p.m. on Election Night, Trump walked into Mar-a-Lago's ballroom to thunderous cheers from a crowd filled with his wealthy donors. Behind him were his family, including his son Eric and daughter-in-law Laura, and his youngest son Barron. For the next three and a half hours, he, along with Musk and White, watched in rapture as the election turned out better than even his most optimistic supporters had predicted. Trump’s transition team is packed with loyal followers, such as former Cabinet Secretary Linda McMahon and businessman Howard Lutnick, his sons Donald Jr. and Eric, and his running mate Cyrus. All of them are tasked with ensuring that only true believers join his incoming administration. He is expected to tap into a network of organizations that have been preparing to implement his ideas. Among them is Russ Vought, his former director of the Office of Management and Budget and head of the Center for American Renewal, who has been drafting executive orders that Trump could sign in the first hours of his presidency. The first and most radical agenda item is expected to be immigration and the border. In an interview with Time, Trump said he plans to use executive power to begin mass deportations of undocumented immigrants, ordering raids by the National Guard, Immigration and Customs Enforcement and federal law enforcement. Tom Homan, a former Trump official now affiliated with Project 2025, is expected to lead the effort, according to campaign sources. Meanwhile, senior Trump advisers told Time there will be a massive purge of the federal bureaucracy. The most satisfying part for Trump, they said, would be the firing of special prosecutor Jack Smith, who accused Trump of willfully mishandling classified information and conspiring to overturn the 2020 election. Trump’s most controversial move will almost certainly face a major legal and political fight. He vowed during his campaign to pick an attorney general who would investigate and prosecute his political opponents and critics. Trump was emboldened by a Supreme Court ruling last summer that granted the U.S. president immunity from certain criminal prosecutions for official actions. Judging by Trump’s psychological tendencies, his vows to seek revenge on his opponents, and the dismantling of many of the obstacles that stood in his way during his first term, scholars of authoritarianism see a country on the brink of crisis. Ultimately, elections are a judgment on the American people and the president they re-elect. Trump’s resurgence is no accident. By launching a social and political movement that has given him coercive power over the Republican Party, Trump has systematically dismantled many of America’s long-standing norms and ushered in a cadre of minions who will feed his most authoritarian impulses. He will enter his second term committed to creating an environment of governance with few limits on his power. He makes no secret of it. This is what the American people have decided they want. Former President Donald Trump gave a wide-ranging interview to TIME magazine on April 12 at his Mar-a-Lago club in Palm Beach, Florida, and followed up by phone on April 27. In the interview, Trump discussed his second-term agenda, which includes deporting millions of people, cutting the number of American civil servants, and intervening more directly in Justice Department prosecutions than his predecessor. He also discussed his views on other issues, including abortion, crime, trade, Ukraine, Israel, and the prospect of political violence in this election cycle. The following is a transcript of Trump’s conversation with Time magazine’s national political reporter Eric Cortellessa, which has been lightly edited by Time for clarity. Let’s start with day one: January 20, 2025. You've said you're going to take a series of aggressive actions on the border and immigration -- DONALD TRUMP: Yes. TRUMP: And energy. Yes, yes. We're certainly going to talk about that. You've vowed to launch the largest deportation operation in American history. Your advisers say that includes -- TRUMP: Because we have no choice. I don't think a country can afford to be in a situation like this, what we're going through, where by the time Biden leaves office, it could be 15 million, maybe as many as 20 million people. Twenty million people, many of them from prisons, many of them from mental institutions. I mean, you look at what's happening in Venezuela and other countries. They're becoming much safer. Well, let's talk about -- you talked about doing a massive deportation operation. I want to get specifics on how you're going to do that. Trump: If you look back to the 1950s, Dwight Eisenhower was not known for this, you wouldn't think of him that way. Because you see, Eric, but Dwight Eisenhower was very serious about keeping illegal immigrants out of our country. He deported a lot of illegal immigrants. He did it for a long time, very skillfully. He took them to the other side of the border, and a few days later they were back. And then he started taking them 3,000 miles away - TRUMP: We're going to use local law enforcement. We're absolutely going to start with the criminals that are coming in. They're coming in in numbers that we've never seen before. We do have a new type of crime. It's called immigrant crime. It's crime that, uh, you see all the time. In New York, they're getting into fistfights with the police. And worse. You see it all the time. You see it in all the cities, especially in the cities that are run by Democrats, and there are a lot of big cities, but Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles are worse than anywhere else. Does that include using the United States military? TRUMP: Yes. When we talk about the military, we're talking about the National Guard. I used the National Guard in Minneapolis. If I hadn't used it, I don't think Minneapolis would be here right now because it was really bad. But I think that was the National Guard. But I'm totally fine with using the military if I think things are getting out of control. We have to keep our country safe. We have to maintain law and order in our country. Whatever it takes, I think the National Guard can do it. You know, if Nancy Pelosi uses the National Guard, I'm willing to do whatever they ask, but I often -- Would you use the military both inland and at the border? TRUMP: I don't think I would have to. I think the National Guard can do it. If they can't do it, then I would use the military. You know, we're in a different situation. We have millions of people now, and we didn't two years ago. Sir, the Militia Act says that you can't use the U.S. military against civilians. Are you going to ignore that? TRUMP: Well, these are not civilians. They are not people coming into our country legally. This is an invasion of our country. An invasion of a kind that probably no country has ever seen. They're coming in by the millions. I believe we have 15 million right now. I think by the time this thing is over, you're going to have 20 million. That's more than the population of almost every state. So you can see yourself using the military to solve this problem? TRUMP: I can see myself using the National Guard, and I'd have to go even further if I have to. We have to do everything we can to stop the problem that we have. Again, we have a great force building in this country, 29,000 people have come in from China in the last three weeks, all underage, mostly male. Yes, you have to do what is necessary to stop the crime, to stop what is happening at the border. Does that include building new detention camps for immigrants? TRUMP: We don't have to do much. Because we're taking them out of the country. We're not keeping them in the country. We're taking them out. We've done it before. TRUMP: Obama did it in the form of prisons, you know, jails. I got yelled at for four months for that. Then people realized it was him, not me. So, are you ruling out the possibility that new detention camps will be built? TRUMP: No, I'm not ruling anything out. But the fact is, we're going to be moving them out, so we don't need that many detention camps. We're going to be taking them back from where they came from. The reason I ask this is because Stephen Miller, your close aide and advisor, has said that part of executing this deportation operation will include building new detention camps for immigrants. TRUMP: We may do that to a certain extent, but we won't have to do it too much because once we start, we're going to get them out. We're going to start with the criminals, obviously. We're going to use the local police because they know their first name, middle name, and third name. I mean, they know them very well. How are you going to get state and local police departments involved? What authority does the president have to do that? TRUMP: Some people may not want to participate because they don't want to share the wealth. We have to do it. This problem is not sustainable for our country. Does this mean that you will provide funding incentives from the federal government for state and local police departments? TRUMP: Very likely. I want to get the police immune from prosecution because the liberal groups or the progressive groups, depending on what they want to be called, kind of liberal, kind of progressive, are very insistent that they want to get everybody involved, I don't know. You know, sanctuary cities are failing everywhere. I really believe that there is also a pent-up sentiment among those who support sanctuary cities to end sanctuary cities because they are simply not working for this country. So, by your own account, these are new, bold, and aggressive actions that you are going to take. TRUMP: I don't think they are bold actions. I think they are common-sense actions. But I really believe, Eric, that these actions - they are allowing so many people into our country, it's incredible, especially considering that most of them have not been checked or vetted. They're just pouring in. They're pouring in in numbers that no country has ever seen. It's an invasion of our country. Well, let me put it this way: They are new immigrants who will certainly be tested in the courts. Do you commit to comply with all court orders that the Supreme Court upholds if the courts rule against you? TRUMP: I will comply with court orders. I will act in a very legal manner, just like I built the wall. You know, I built a huge wall, and that gives us a lot of data. I am willing to do much more than I said I would. I was and am willing to -- they should finish that wall. I finished what I said I would do and I did much more than I thought I would do. But as you do it, you find that you need to build more wall in different places that people once thought you couldn't do -- you don't need to do. But, frankly, the first time I found out about Biden wanting to open the borders, because I never believed it. It just doesn't make sense. The first time I really saw that was when he didn't want to install the wall that was already built, and that could have been removed, hundreds of miles of additional work that could have been done in three weeks. I want to talk about your plans to build the wall in a short period of time, but let's get back to the topic. So, you promise to abide by all orders of the Supreme Court? All orders that the Supreme Court upholds? Trump: Yes, of course I will. I have great respect for the Supreme Court. Let's talk about the border wall again, because last term, you tried to negotiate with Democrats Nancy Pelosi and Chuck Schumer on border funding and had an opportunity to get $25 billion. But the negotiations failed. In the end, only $1.4 billion was obtained - Trump: But with the $25 billion, it becomes unacceptable. TRUMP: Well, there are a lot of other things. There are a lot of bad things. Of course, they gave you money to build the wall. You know, I basically took money from the military. I think it was an invasion of our country, and I took it from the -- So my question is, what are you going to do in a second term? Are you going to use federal funds on day one to continue to build the wall? Are you going to legislate? How are you going to do it? TRUMP: I think what we're going to do is finish -- when you and I say finish the wall, I've built a lot more wall than I thought we would. But as you build it, you find out that you need it. We built it, and then we found out that there were holes in certain places, and they would leak. Just like politicians leak, they leak. We found this problem and we built it and then we built other things. It's just a system, we have a good system. We could have added 200 more miles of wall and good territory. Because walls really work, you know, walls and wheels. I would say, you know, a lot of things, look at what you have here, your recorder, other things will be obsolete in about six months. You'll have better things. But there are two things that will never be obsolete, and that's walls and wheels. What you just said. You said, "We want to protect the police from being sued." What do you mean by that? Trump: The police - their authority is taken away. If they get into trouble, even if they do a good job, they're taken away from their homes, their pensions, I mean, they end up losing their families because of it. They're taken away from everything. They sue people. We have to give the police the power and respect they deserve. Now, mistakes are made and there are bad people, and that's a bad thing. But it's even worse now when a department store is being looted and the police are standing outside while 500 young people walk out of the store and take away air conditioners, televisions and other things. The police want to take action. But they're told to stay out of it. They say stay out of it. If you intervene, if you stop the crime, we're going to threaten your pension, your house, your family, your wife or your husband. You know, police officers are often sued. We want to be immune from prosecution if they do their job. Will you try to pass a law in Congress? Will you push for a bill in Congress to do that? TRUMP: We'll have to see. Let's turn to the economy, sir. You're putting a 10 percent tariff on all imports, and over 60 percent on Chinese imports. Can I ask you now: Is that your plan? TRUMP: It might be more than that. It might be just some of it. But there are always people who - look at them when they come in, they steal our jobs, they steal our wealth, they steal our country. You're saying more than that, though: Are you saying over 10 percent tariffs on all imports? TRUMP: Over 10 percent, yes. I call it a "ring tariff." We have a ring of countries. In addition to what we're talking about, there are reciprocal taxes. If we did that, the numbers are staggering. I don't think it would have that much of an impact because they make so much money off of us. I don't think the costs would go up that much either. A lot of people say, "Oh, that would be a tax on us." I don't believe that. I think it's a tax on the country. I know. I made billions of dollars from China. Nobody had ever done anything with China before. I also made people aware of the threat of China. China makes five or six hundred billion dollars a year, and nobody had ever mentioned China before me. It's very sad in Detroit because the mandate for electric cars is ridiculous because they don't go very far. They cost too much, and they're going to be made in China. They're all going to be made in China. Mr. President, most economists -- I know not all, there's no agreement on this -- but most economists say that tariffs are going to drive up prices. Trump: Yes. TRUMP: No, I've seen it. I've seen some -- I don't think it's going to cause inflation. I don't think it's going to cause inflation. I think it's a no-brainer for our country. Because what's going to happen is other countries are going to do very successfully, China being the leader. India is very difficult to deal with. India -- I get along very well with Modi, but it's very difficult to deal with on trade. France is very difficult to deal with on trade, frankly. Brazil is very difficult to deal with on trade. What they do is they charge very high import fees. They say, we don't want you to ship your cars to Brazil, we don't want you to ship your cars to China or India. But if you want to build a factory in our country and hire our people, that's fine. That's basically what I'm doing. I'm doing it and I'm pushing it very hard, but right when we were about to really start, we got hit with COVID. We had to fix that. And we ended up doing a much better stock market than we did when COVID first came out. But if you look at how we did in our first few years, the numbers are staggering. There has never been an economy that -- Sir, there's no doubt that the economy was doing really well during your first term. But Moody's did say that your trade war with China cost the U.S. economy $316 billion and 300,000 jobs. [Editor's note: The $316 billion estimate was made by Bloomberg Economics, not Moody's. ]Trump: Yeah. Moody's doesn't know what they're talking about. We have the greatest economy in history. Moody's admits that. How can we lose if we have such a great economy? Everybody admits that. If we didn't do this, we wouldn't have a steel industry right now. They dumped steel into this country. I put a 50% tariff on steel. It's going to go up. The people who love me the most are the businesses, especially the steel businesses. They love me because I saved their industry. Steel bosses and executives would cry when they saw me. They said, nobody helped us until you came along. China was dumping tons of steel into our country. We saved the steel industry. Do you think that companies would pass on the cost of the tax to consumers? TRUMP: No, I don't think so. I think it would cost the country -- I think they would have less revenue. I actually think the countries that were taxed would have less revenue. I don't believe -- Do you not believe that companies would pass on the cost? TRUMP: No, I think the situation is that you manufactured it. The way out of this whole situation is that you ended up manufacturing it, and instead of importing it from China, because of the extra cost, you ended up making it in the United States. Traditionally, that's been the case. If you look at what's going on. If you look at China, they don't want our cars. They charge a huge amount. You look at India. India is a great example. I get along very well with the people of India. Modi is a good guy, and he's doing what he has to do. But we had some problems with Harley-Davidson, and I had the Harley-Davidson guys go to the White House. I said, "How are you doing? Is business good? Is everything good?" I said, "Out of curiosity, how are you handling the relationship with India?" "Not very good." Now you have to remember, this was five years ago, four years ago, they said, "Not very good. We can't do business with India because they charge us such high tariffs, over 100%." At those prices, you know, consumers would collapse and not be able to buy. They said, "But they're willing to do anything for us to build a Harley-Davidson factory in India. They don't want us to sell motorcycles to India, but they do want us to build a factory." I said, "Well, I'm not very happy about this." But it happened. They built a factory in India. Now there's no tax, and we're going to do the same thing. We're going to build a factory here. Something is going on right now that no one talks about, maybe doesn’t know about, but I have a friend who builds car factories. That’s what he does. If you asked him to build a simple apartment somewhere, he wouldn’t know how to do it. But he can build factories, millions of square feet, the largest factories in the world. He’s incredible. I said to him, “I want to see your factory.” He said to me, “Well, are you ready to go to Mexico? Are you ready to go to China?” I said, “No, I want to see it here.” He said, “We don’t actually build factories here, the big ones are not built here, the big ones are being built in Mexico or in China right now.” China is building factories in Mexico right now to make cars for the United States. These factories are the largest factories in the world. If I were president, this would not happen because I would put a 100% tariff on them. Because I would not allow them to steal the rest of our business. You know, Mexico has taken 31% of our auto manufacturing and automotive business. And China has a much larger share than that. We have a very small percentage of this business, and then you have a poor fool like this gentleman in the United Auto Workers who agrees with us to make pure electric vehicles, which is really sad because pure electric vehicles are not what consumers want at all. Sir, I understand your position -- TRUMP: I have no problem with electric cars, by the way. I think it's great. You can buy electric cars, and I think that's great. They don't go far. They have problems. They don't work in cold weather. They don't work in hot weather. There's a lot of problems. When I was in Iowa, there were electric cars everywhere. They were all over the streets. It was 40 degrees below zero on primary night in Iowa. TRUMP: That's right. I've never heard of temperatures like that. TRUMP: I didn't say that. They charge us 100 percent. But their tariffs are much higher than that. India charges us higher tariffs than that. What's the tariff Brazil charges us -- Brazil is a very, very high tariff country. I ask people, who are the most difficult to deal with? I won't tell you because I don't want to insult these countries because I actually get along very well with them. But you'd be surprised. The European Union is very tough on us. They don't accept our foreign products. They don't accept our cars. We accept Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen and BMW. They don't accept our cars. If we want to sell a Chevrolet, or even a Cadillac, a beautiful Cadillac Escalade, if we want to sell our cars to Germany, for example, they won't accept it. We'll get back to Europe later. Trump: I said to Angela Merkel, "Angela, how many Chevrolets are there in the center of Berlin?" She said none. I said, "You're right. But we buy your cars, including Volkswagens and other relatively inexpensive cars." I said, "Do you think that's fair?" She said, "Probably not, but no one ever mentioned it until you showed up."Sir, you have criticized the way Israel is waging war against Hamas. In a recent interview, you said Israel needs to "end the war" and "return to normalcy."So as president, would you consider withholding military aid to Israel to force it to end the war? TRUMP: Okay. Let me start on the inside. [Aides turns down the air conditioning.] I don't have to start at the beginning. But as you know, Iran was bankrupt. Iran was -- No, I know, but could you -- TRUMP: No, but think about what a great job I did. This would not have happened. You wouldn't have -- Hamas had no money. You know that? I understand, sir, I'm just wondering -- TRUMP: No, but I wanted to point out. During my tenure, there were reports that Iran had no money to give to anybody -- very little terrorism. We had none. I had four years -- we had no terrorism. We didn't have the World Trade Center destroyed. You know, Bush once said, "Well, we're a safe country." I said they destroyed the World Trade Center during your tenure. Do you remember that debate? That's a good example. But it's true, absolutely true. But we didn't have terror -- we were 100% free of ISIS. Now they're starting to come back. I want to know -- you said you wanted Israel to end the war. You said you needed to "get it over with." What are you going to do about that? Would you consider withholding aid? TRUMP: I think Israel has done a very bad job of public relations. I don't think the Israel Defense Fund or any other organization should be releasing pictures of collapsed buildings every night with people potentially inside them, and they're doing that every night. So you're not ruling out suspending or limiting aid? TRUMP: No, I -- we have to do it. Look, no president has ever done what I did to Israel. Look at everything I've done, first with the Iran nuclear deal. You know, Netanyahu begged Obama not to make that deal. I terminated that deal. If they were smart and energetic, they could have made a deal, other than trying to win over Trump, because they were in a bad position. They should have made a deal with Iran. They didn't sue. They didn't make a deal. But I did with the Golan Heights. TRUMP: Nobody even thought about the Golan Heights. I gave them the Golan Heights. I did the embassy, in Jerusalem. Jerusalem became the capital. I built the embassy. TRUMP: It's a beautiful embassy, and it cost less than anybody thought. You've heard about that, too. But no president has ever done what I did in Israel. And the interesting thing is, the Israeli people appreciate it. My approval rating is at 98%, the highest. You know who in Israel right now doesn't have a high approval rating? TRUMP: Bibi. Yes. Do you think it's time for him to go? TRUMP: Well, I had a bad experience with Bibi. It was with Soleimani, because as you probably know, he backed out before the strike. I said, "What's going on?" Because it was a joint operation, and all of a sudden, we were told that Israel was backing out. I was very upset about that. I'll never forget it. It taught me some truth. I would say that what happened on October 7th should not have happened. It happened on his watch. TRUMP: No, it happened on his watch. I think, despite all that happened, it had a profound effect on him. Because people will say, that should not have happened. They had the most advanced equipment. They could have prevented this. A lot of people knew about it, thousands of people knew about it, but Israel didn't, and I think he bears a major responsibility for that. And now with the hostages - is his time over? TRUMP: I happen to think that, in terms of hostages, knowing the enemy, knowing the hostages, I think there are very few left. You know, they talk about all these hostages that are being taken. I don't believe these people are capable or want to take care of hostages in negotiations. I don't think - I think there will be far fewer hostages than people think, which is a very sad thing. Do you think you would work better with Benny Gantz in a second term than with Netanyahu? TRUMP: I think Benny Gantz is great, but I don't want to say that. I haven't talked to him about it. But I know some very good people in Israel who can do a great job. TRUMP: I would say that Netanyahu is rightly criticized for what happened on October 7th. Do you think the outcome of the war between Israel and Hamas should be a two-state solution between Israelis and Palestinians? TRUMP: Most people think it's going to be a two-state solution. I'm not sure a two-state solution is going to work anymore. Everybody's talking about two states, even when I was there. I said, "What do you like here? Do you like two states?" Now people are back to -- it depends on where you are. It changes every day now. If Israel is making progress, they don't want two states. They want everything. If Israel is not making progress, sometimes they talk about two states. Two states seem to be the favorite idea, policy or concept. TRUMP: It depends on when. There was a time when I thought two states would work. Now I think two states would be very, very hard. I think it would be much harder to do. I also think there are fewer people who like the idea. There were a lot of people who liked the idea four years ago. Today, there are a lot fewer people who like the idea. Trump; there's probably no other idea. You know, some people say this situation is the hardest to resolve, the hardest to resolve. Trump: Because kids are raised to hate Jews to a level that no one can imagine. I have a friend, a very good friend, Sheldon Adelson, who thinks it's impossible to make a deal because the level of hatred is so great. I think there's much more hatred on both sides, but the level of hatred for Jews is so great, and it's been that way since kindergarten. He feels that -- he's a great dealmaker. He's a very wealthy man. He's wealthy because he can make deals. He loves Israel more than anything. He loves Israel and he wants to protect Israel. He feels that there can't be a deal because of the level of hatred. Do you feel that way now? TRUMP: I disagree. But so far, he hasn't been wrong. You said you were proud to be the first president in generations who didn't get the United States into a war. You talked about that a little bit in your press conference. But if Iran and Israel went to war, would you stand by Israel? TRUMP: I'm very loyal to Israel, more than any other president. I've done more for Israel than any other president. Yes, I would protect Israel. You said this week that abortion should be a matter for the states to decide, and that you would not sign a federal ban. So, I want to make sure: Will you veto any bill that puts federal restrictions on abortion? TRUMP: You don't need a federal ban. We just got rid of a federal ban. You know, if you go back to Roe v. Wade, the point of Roe v. Wade was - it wasn't so much about abortion, it was about bringing it back to the states. So the states would negotiate deals. Florida would be different from Georgia, Georgia would be different from everywhere else. But that's where it is now. It's very interesting. But remember, for 53 years, every legal scholar has said from a legal perspective that abortion is a matter for the states. Now, it's starting to move in that direction. People are starting to look at 15 weeks, five weeks, or six weeks, and they're starting to look at time limits. They're suddenly starting to decide what abortion is. People want to know, if a bill came before you, would you veto it? That would be really important to a lot of voters. TRUMP: But you have to remember this, it's never going to happen, because it's just not going to happen. You're never going to get 60 votes. Neither the Democrats nor the Republicans will be able to do that for many years to come. Right now, it's basically 50-50. I think we have a chance to get a couple seats, but a couple seats means we get 51 or 52 seats. We have a long way to go. So that's not going to happen because you're not going to get those seats. All right. But having said that, it's up to the states, it's up to the states to make their own decisions. The states are going to make their own decisions. TRUMP: You know what? It takes a tremendous amount of pressure off everybody. But we're -- it's not well defined. And to be honest, Republicans, a lot of Republicans, don't know how to talk about this. This issue has never affected me. So, just to be clear: If there are federal restrictions -- federal abortion restrictions, you will not commit to veto that bill? TRUMP: I don't have to commit to a veto because it's never going to happen -- number one, it's never going to happen. Number two, this is about states' rights. You don't want to go back to the federal government. This is all about getting rid of the federal government. Eric, this is settled because -- this is settled, and this issue has been greatly simplified over the past week. This was all about getting rid of the federal government. The last thing you want to do is go back to the federal government. The states are working on this. Look at Ohio. Ohio passed some bills that surprised people a little bit. Kansas, I mean, these are big conservative Trump states, Ohio and Kansas, all of these states, but they passed what they wanted to pass. This is about states' rights. I understand, sir. Your allies in the Republican Study Committee, which is about 80% of the Republican caucus, have included the Conceived Life Act in their 2025 budget proposal. That bill would give full legal rights to the embryo. Is that your position as well? TRUMP: Say it again. What? The Conceived Life Act, which would give full legal rights to the embryo, was included in their 2025 budget proposal. Is that your position as well? TRUMP: I'll leave it all up to the states. It's going to be different in each state. Some will be for it, some will be against it. It's not the same in Texas as it is in Ohio. TRUMP: I won't have to do anything about the veto because we've restored the veto now in the states. TRUMP: They're going to make those decisions. Do you think women should be able to get the abortion pill, mifepristone? TRUMP: Well, I have a view on it, but I'm not going to explain it. I'm not going to say it right now. But I have a very strong view on it. I'll probably release it next week. Mr. President, this is a big issue because your allies have called for enforcement of the Comstock Act, which banned mail-delivered medication for abortions. The Biden Justice Department did not enforce that act. Will your Justice Department enforce it? TRUMP: I'm going to make a statement on this within the next 14 days. TRUMP: Yes, I have a big statement on that. I'm very firm on that. I think it's a very important issue, actually. Got it. You think that this issue should be left to the states. You've made that very clear. Would you be comfortable if the states decided to punish women who had abortions after abortion was outlawed? TRUMP: Are you referring to weeks? Yes. So let's say the ban on abortions was 15 weeks -- TRUMP: Again, that would be -- I don't have to feel comfortable or uncomfortable. The states are going to make that decision. The states have to feel comfortable or uncomfortable, not me. TRUMP: I think the states should monitor women's pregnancies to know if they're having abortions after a ban? TRUMP: I think they probably would. Again, you have to talk to the states. Roe v. Wade was about giving abortion rights back to the states. It was both a legal decision and it was probably a moral decision in some people's minds. But it was primarily a legal decision. Every legal scholar, Democrat, Republican, and everybody else wanted to give that back to the states. You know, Roe v. Wade has always been considered very bad law. Very bad. It was a very bad problem from a legal standpoint. People were surprised it lasted so long. What I was able to do was to make it right by picking some very good people who were, frankly, very brave, and the judges ended up being Republicans -- and the states will decide if they're satisfied -- TRUMP: Yes, the states -- sued women who had abortions after the ban. But are you satisfied with that? TRUMP: The states will say. It doesn't matter if I'm satisfied or not. It doesn't matter at all because the states will make the decision. And by the way, it's going to be different in Texas than it is in Ohio. It's going to be different in Ohio than it is in Michigan. I see what's going on. President Trump, we are in Florida. You are a resident of Florida. How do you plan to vote in the state's abortion referendum this November that would overturn DeSantis' six-week ban? TRUMP: Well, I said I thought six weeks was too harsh. TRUMP: I did say that before. TRUMP: Well, there are other implications to this as well.
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